Curse

whufc89 · Mar 25, 2008, 04:18 AM // 04:18

I have many questions about making a decent build for my Paragon hero, and didn't want to make a new thread for each question, so I'll be putting all the questions in here, and hopefully people can help me out

First question:

I have started making my new Paragon's build and so far it has around 3/8 skills in it. I'm using the following attributes:

Leadership - 16 (12+1+3)
Spear Mastery - 9
Command - 9 (For my shield, plus I feel Command is better than Motivation)

First of all I wasn't too sure whether to put ANY point into SM, as this Paragon will be used to buff the skills of my party & to reduce damage etc. Do you think SM is important in this case, and if so, how many SM skills would you recommend having in the build?

Second Question:

I'm finding it really difficult to chooes between a decent Elite skill for my Paragon. I don't particularly want to give him a SM elite, as he's not there to be a massive damage dealer, he's there to support the rest of the party. I looked through the Elite skills and not a single one really appealed to me. What do you guys think would be a decent Elite skill choice for this Para?

Paragon Skills - http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_paragon_skills

Just so you know what my team lineup is going to be, just incase this makes any difference to the build, it is:

Me - Fire Ele
Acolyte Sousuke - SF Ele
Master Of Whispers - MM/Bomber
General Morgahn - Paragon
Mhenlo - Healer
Lina - Protection
Herta - Earth
Zho - Interrupt
Or instead of Zho, either Cynn or Devona (which would you suggest?

)

Third Question:

Do you think it'd be better to bring two hero SF ele's + myself (who is also a SF ele) instead of one hero SF ele plus a MM/Bomber? I only ask because with three SF ele's, we will be able to maintain burning on enemies, therefore affectively keeping [skill]"They're on Fire!"[/skill] up all the time.

Captain Miken · Mar 25, 2008, 04:22 AM // 04:22

I suggest leaving the job of Paragon to a person who can use the IMBA PvE skills.

Just my $0.02.

whufc89 · Mar 25, 2008, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Miken

I suggest leaving the job of Paragon to a person who can use the IMBA PvE skills.

Just my $0.02.

The thing is though, where am I gonna find a Paragon who will accompany me all the time through boring little side quests and stuff like that? I'm a quest freak, making sure I do each & every little quest, and to have to go looking for a Paragon player every time I wanna do a quest, would be a bit of a hassle.

Do you not think hero Para's are up to the job?

Antithesis · Mar 25, 2008, 04:38 AM // 04:38

The build you choose comes down to whether or not you plan to play in NM or HM. As stated ad infinitum, anything works in NM, your build is put to the test in HM.

Here's the fast-track to a good Paragon build -

10 to 12 in Leadership is all you need - shouts = energy.
12 to 14 in Spear Mastery is ideal - a Paragon IS a DPS character who can offer insane protection to the team with a couple of shouts alongside heavy-hitting attacks. Don't gimp your build, run Spear Mastery.
9+ in Command or Motivation - mostly to meet the shield req, you'll generally end up taking only one or two skills from either line.

Because you're running a party full of squishies and looking for synergy with SF, here's roughly what i'd do -

[skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill][skill]Vicious Attack[/skill][skill]Blazing Spear[/skill][skill]"Go for the eyes!"[/skill][skill]Defensive Anthem[/skill][skill]"Never Surrender!"[/skill][skill]"They're on Fire!"[/skill][skill]Signet of Return[/skill]

Use They're on Fire to maintain Aggressive Refrain between mobs. Optionally, slot in Spear of Lightning for either GFTE or NS.

blue.rellik · Mar 25, 2008, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Why do I get the distinct feeling that the OP is under the impression that casters are the best damage dealers?

Antithesis · Mar 25, 2008, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Because 3 x SF pwns NM. It's only when we graduate to HM that we know better

Coloneh · Mar 25, 2008, 05:10 AM // 05:10

also heros cant run physicals very well anyways. espically not melee.

anyways, i cant offer to much insight on the actual build, I dont know a whole lot about paragon skills, but it does seem like you are going about the class wrong. first, they are a DPS machine and it only takes aggresive refrain and an attack skill or two to put them on par with a standard warrior. second, dont worry to much about that shield, at least dont specc into an attribute just for the shield, the 8 armor from not meeting an attribute is not as bad as wasting points.

and for an elite?... all I know is that im in love with focused anger. Empathic Removal also looks like it would be quite useful. maybe even RC

As for the eles, i dont think i would run 3 SFs or even 1. I would bring MB/RI eles, they might do slightly less damage in a group, but they can easily put 8 points into another attribute for utility like wards, protection, blinds, KD, Hexes, Heals, Spirits, ect. your eles can do basically anything and keep the pressure high at the same time and the burning duration is still pretty good, maybe throw in mark of rodgort.

whufc89 · Mar 25, 2008, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Why do I get the distinct feeling that the OP is under the impression that casters are the best damage dealers?

I don't think they're the best damage dealers at all. I just think that in PvE when you have around 20 enemies coming at you from all different directions, AoE casters should be able to handle the situation a lot better than a warrior who will just spend time killing one thing, then move on to another, kill it & so on. With elementalists, they can do damage to all 20 enemies at once, if they're all bunched together, the warrior can only target one or two enemies at once. They can also bring utilities, whereas I'm not going to waste a hero slot on a warrior & give him utility skills seeing as AI melee are so crap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Because 3 x SF pwns NM. It's only when we graduate to HM that we know better

Would this idea not work in HM then? I'm nearly finished GWEN & once that's done I'll be switching to HM permanently as I've finished all the other campaigns etc in NM. If not, why wouldn't it work? Also Antithesis, AR gives the para cracked armor for 20 seconds, effectively giving him caster's armor instead of Paragon's. Is this not a problem?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

also heros cant run physicals very well anyways. espically not melee.

anyways, i cant offer to much insight on the actual build, I dont know a whole lot about paragon skills, but it does seem like you are going about the class wrong. first, they are a DPS machine and it only takes aggresive refrain and an attack skill or two to put them on par with a standard warrior. second, dont worry to much about that shield, at least dont specc into an attribute just for the shield, the 8 armor from not meeting an attribute is not as bad as wasting points.

and for an elite?... all I know is that im in love with focused anger. Empathic Removal also looks like it would be quite useful. maybe even RC

As for the eles, i dont think i would run 3 SFs or even 1. I would bring MB/RI eles, they might do slightly less damage in a group, but they can easily put 8 points into another attribute for utility like wards, protection, blinds, KD, Hexes, Heals, Spirits, ect. your eles can do basically anything and keep the pressure high at the same time and the burning duration is still pretty good, maybe throw in mark of rodgort.

That sounds like a good idea, I'll try that out, thanks

And finally guys, do you think it'd be better to use 2 SF ele's + the paragon as my heroes or 1 SF ele, the paragon + a MM?

**Marty Silverblade** · Mar 25, 2008, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

I don't think they're the best damage dealers at all. I just think that in PvE when you have around 20 enemies coming at you from all different directions, AoE casters should be able to handle the situation a lot better than a warrior who will just spend time killing one thing, then move on to another, kill it & so on. With elementalists, they can do damage to all 20 enemies at once, if they're all bunched together, the warrior can only target one or two enemies at once. They can also bring utilities, whereas I'm not going to waste a hero slot on a warrior & give him utility skills seeing as AI melee are so crap.

Well if you have 20 enemies coming at you you need to learn to pull. Everything in HM has an insane AL so fire doesn't do all that much. Armor ignoring damage (includes +damage) = win.

Quote:

Would this idea not work in HM then? I'm nearly finished GWEN & once that's done I'll be switching to HM permanently as I've finished all the other campaigns etc in NM. If not, why wouldn't it work? Also Antithesis, AR gives the para cracked armor for 20 seconds, effectively giving him caster's armor instead of Paragon's. Is this not a problem?

SF is nice if you're running TOF, but damage-wise fire isn't all that good for reasons previously mentioned.

xDusT II · Mar 25, 2008, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Paragons are so broken because of their ability to both play a support role and an offensive role quite comfortably, while other classes would have to compromise on one front. You should never run low spear mastery as a pure support paragon is inferior to caster support templates. Spear mastery should be one of your highest attributes on a paragon.

As for elite skills; Song of Restoration, Defensive Anthem and Cruel spear should create the foundation which you should build around.

whufc89 · Mar 25, 2008, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Well I've made my attempt at a synergizing Paragon build to go with the 3 SF ele's on my team. Let me know what you think of it:

[skill]defensive anthem[/skill][skill]spear of lightning[/skill][skill]blazing spear[/skill] [skill]Burning Refrain[/skill] [skill]"They're on Fire!"[/skill] [skill]blazing finale[/skill] [skill]"Stand Your Ground!"[/skill] [skill]signet of return[/skill]

I'm not sure how the attributes should be split though & which attributes to use runes for

This is most probably NOT going to be my final build, as I'm fairly sure that it can be improved upon, but it's just a rough copy to see what you guys think of it. The reasoning for each skill is as follows:

DA - Self Explanatory

Spear Skills - Spammable Attacks

Burning Refrain - To Fuel 'They're On Fire'

They're On Fire - To Synergize With The SF Ele's & Keep My Team Alive

Blazing Finale - See Burning Refrain

Stand Your Ground - Seeing as most of my team are casters, we probably won't be moving at all during a fight, so I figured this would be an excellent skill to use.

I was going to use [skill]"Go for the Eyes!"[/skill] And [skill]anthem of flame[/skill] but like I said above, most (not ALL) of my team will be casters so it's probably a waste of a skill slot.

Antithesis · Mar 25, 2008, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Heroes are crap at Burning Refrain and Blazing Finale.

Go for the Eyes! is energy management for the Paragon that synergises well with Vicious Attack. Both are optional.

Stand Your Ground! and Defensive Anthem on the same bar will probably cause energy management issues.
SYG is meh as H/H will kite, Never Surrender isn't great either but can dig you out of the poo when you need it.

Aggressive Refrain should be taken - Cracked Armor means nothing on a Paragon as it's rarely targeted and is always the last one standing in any battle. Once you get used to the Para, you'll nail this to your bar.

SF works in some areas in HM, but it's not devastating like it is in NM. Unconditional armour ignoring damage is the way to go for HM.

whufc89 · Mar 25, 2008, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Heroes are crap at Burning Refrain and Blazing Finale.

Go for the Eyes! is energy management for the Paragon that synergises well with Vicious Attack. Both are optional.

Stand Your Ground! and Defensive Anthem on the same bar will probably cause energy management issues.
SYG is meh as H/H will kite, Never Surrender isn't great either but can dig you out of the poo when you need it.

Aggressive Refrain should be taken - Cracked Armor means nothing on a Paragon as it's rarely targeted and is always the last one standing in any battle. Once you get used to the Para, you'll nail this to your bar.

SF works in some areas in HM, but it's not devastating like it is in NM. Unconditional armour ignoring damage is the way to go for HM.

OK gimme 5 mins or so and I'll post my updated build, thanks

What do you think of [skill]Glowing Signet[/skill] though for E-Management?

blue.rellik · Mar 25, 2008, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Leadership is all the E-Management a Paragon needs.

Anyone that disagrees is wrong

Antithesis · Mar 25, 2008, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

What do you think of [skill]Glowing Signet[/skill] though for E-Management?

Completely unnecessary.

To answer your question - 3 x SF + ToF Paragon has greater synergy and will tear through most of NM. An MM is often the last one to enter the fight when they should be the first (to setup your meatshield).

whufc89 · Mar 25, 2008, 09:27 AM // 09:27

OK here's my updated build. Probably still not perfect but how does it look?

[skill]defensive anthem[/skill][skill]aggressive refrain[/skill][skill]"Go for the Eyes!"[/skill][skill]vicious attack[/skill][skill]blazing spear[/skill] [skill]"They're on Fire!"[/skill][skill]anthem of flame[/skill] [skill]signet of return[/skill]

I'm just not sure how to spread out the attributes now.

Command can stay at 9, but I want to have high Leadership & Spear Mastery really, for ToF & the attack skills. I mean, the whole point of this build really is to synergize with the SF ele's, so I want to have Leadership as high as I can really don't I, so that the team takes as little damage from burning foes as possible?

Also, do shouts, chants & echos stack? Just wondering because Morgahn may cast the most important shout & then cancel it out straight away with a different shout which would equal bad times

Washi · Mar 25, 2008, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Why do you put Anthem of Flame on him? The only party member that uses attack skills is that paragon, and one of his attacks causes burning anyway. Unless you take zho as well but still not enough phisicals to make it worth a skill slot IMO.

Go for the eyes probably triggers on minions so it could be worth it.

whufc89 · Mar 25, 2008, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Washi

Why do you put Anthem of Flame on him? The only party member that uses attack skills is that paragon, and one of his attacks causes burning anyway. Unless you take zho as well but still not enough phisicals to make it worth a skill slot IMO.

Go for the eyes probably triggers on minions so it could be worth it.

I've taken it out now, thanks for the advice. Also, I'm not sure about GFTE, I mean if it's just the Paragon + possibly Zho using attack skills is it worth bringing?

Antithesis · Mar 25, 2008, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Again, GFTE's is energy management. Drop it for another attack if energy is not a problem.

Chants, Anthems, Refrains and Echos do stack.

Leadership 14 (12+1+1)
Spear 12 (11+1)
Rest in Command (should be 9-ish)

whufc89 · Mar 25, 2008, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Again, GFTE's is energy management. Drop it for another attack if energy is not a problem.

Chants, Anthems, Refrains and Echos do stack.

Leadership 14 (12+1+1)
Spear 12 (11+1)
Rest in Command (should be 9-ish)

Thank you very much

Do you think the build above is fine?

EDIT: Can't do those attributes, not enough att points. Any other suggestion?